Foreword: This is my first post on this board, I haven't really been active for about 5 years and the old forum is gone now, along with my old theories; which honestly is fortunate since I found some fossils of my posts buried deep and aside from the horrendous grammar it is also pretty embarrassing seeing how immature you could be a quarter of your life ago.
Anyways half a decade later and my interest for this series revived I feel like taking a crack at this again, enjoy
Destruction of Space Theory
Let me know if someone already proposed this
Simply put the space between locations in the subnet have been destroyed, and not in the mundane sense that there is just air or a vacuum between them, but that literally nothing exists between them not even the concept of space. Distances fall apart and break down in the way we know them and when space breaks down to that level, so does time.
Something strikes me as kind of odd in these games, in more outdoor locations than not, in lieu of a bright blue sky you just stare into the void , even in Submachine 0 where it looks like a sky we later find out that it was nothing more than a fake backdrop. This of course makes sense if the earth broke apart and we are only floating on chunks of dirt, there wold be not a significant atmosphere to diffuse blue light, but what there would be is startlight. the black sky we see is solid, not even the sun or moon is visible. This can be explained in three ways;
One: The submachines exist outside our reality
Two: There exists some sort of capsule around the areas or the submachine as a whole.
Three: The light doesn't have a medium to travel through to reach the players eyes.
It is clear that Mur causes destruction when abusing his karmic abilities, "the third layer" is irreparable now, because of that fact this theory chose to rely on the third assumption. Murs karma arm allows him to open doors to other places. He can even move through the fourth dimension (no not time) to different layers of existence. He spends a lot of time in these higher layers, but the third layer was his playing grounds, it is where he spent his 32 years exploring the submachines, disregarding the teleporter and using his own doors most of the time which we have experienced when he left the doors open to use. Apparently the sensation is similar to breaking into a 1 dimensional life and cutting right through anything in your way. this method of travel is obviously very destructive to the area around the gate. most of the winter palace is simply gone. This presents a problem, where is everything? The karma portals didn't rip apart the palace, it literally destroyed the matter breaking the first law of thermodynamics, a reverse big bang if you will. which would obviously have a devastating effect on the fabric of space if it can remove matter. If you assume that removing matter and thus energy from a system would affect the fabric of space, for example; ripping an area in space, no space would exist and thus light would have no medium to travel through.
Obviously there are a few holes in this theory some might point out, for example how can you see separate entities in the submachine, such as floating chunks of earth in the distance. well the only assumption is that the submachine "growing" is actually just attempting to repair the damage done and mending the space between the areas, for a metaphor imagine cutting a hole in a piece of fabric and to fix it you would stitch the hole up. now imagine ripping it to shreds and mixxing it around, you could try to sew it back together but without some way of organizing the pieces you would just make a mess of miss-matched materials.
I might revisit this theory later on but for now I just want to see the reaction to it, anyways I hope you enjoyed this and i hope to make many more posts about other series aswell!
Collinbollin's Theories
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collinbollin
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Collinbollin's Theories
Last edited by collinbollin on 17 Jul 2015 08:33, edited 1 time in total.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
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Anonymous2
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Re: Destruction of space theory
I remember you. You took a liking to one of my theories. Yes that was back on Bbpress, when I was a moderator 
Its nice to see you again, hopefully you stick around. ^_^
Its nice to see you again, hopefully you stick around. ^_^
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collinbollin
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Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Instead of just making a new thread for every theory I changed the title of this thread to a more general
"collinbollin's theories" since I plan on tweaking old ones and making new ones.
[edit] Hi Anonymous it's been so long for me but I think I remember you too! great to see you still an active member in the community.
"collinbollin's theories" since I plan on tweaking old ones and making new ones.
[edit] Hi Anonymous it's been so long for me but I think I remember you too! great to see you still an active member in the community.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
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collinbollin
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Re: Collinbollin's Theories
[Preface: Hey just wondering if I should be writing these "in character" so to speak, as if I were lost in the submachine like some of my favorite theories in snee anyways time for theory #2 
]
No Earth theory
If you're reading this you are no doubt a lost and everyone in here. how long has it been since you've been home? I've been thinking about this lately and I think I've come to the conclusion that we aren't going home. I suppose I should rephrase that a bit, we never left earth to begin with. Let me explain.
As you've probably noticed, most people in these submachines don't remember much, whether this is some amnesia or just our memory is slowly degrading is irrelevant, no one knows how they got here except maybe mur. This is a problem because it leaves some important information out of our lives. I'm writing this as a supplement for that hole in our history. Essentially everything we see here wasn't made by the submachine, it was saved from destruction. When Mur started experimenting with his portals he ripped apart our world, it's thanks to the subnet that we have land to walk on still since Mur did so much damage that this is all that's left of earth. There's not much more to say on the subject, give up hope on ever going home, this is your home now; if you chose to believe me that is.
]No Earth theory
If you're reading this you are no doubt a lost and everyone in here. how long has it been since you've been home? I've been thinking about this lately and I think I've come to the conclusion that we aren't going home. I suppose I should rephrase that a bit, we never left earth to begin with. Let me explain.
As you've probably noticed, most people in these submachines don't remember much, whether this is some amnesia or just our memory is slowly degrading is irrelevant, no one knows how they got here except maybe mur. This is a problem because it leaves some important information out of our lives. I'm writing this as a supplement for that hole in our history. Essentially everything we see here wasn't made by the submachine, it was saved from destruction. When Mur started experimenting with his portals he ripped apart our world, it's thanks to the subnet that we have land to walk on still since Mur did so much damage that this is all that's left of earth. There's not much more to say on the subject, give up hope on ever going home, this is your home now; if you chose to believe me that is.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
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collinbollin
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Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Non Euclidean Geometry and Submachine
This is less of a theory and more or a study of the math and physics involved in The Subnet as we know it. I will be using some room examples from SNEE but any written clues Im taking from the main game
We know that there has to be some kind of mess up with space and time, the clues are like shards of glass, you don't need to collect them all and glue them together to understand a glass was broken, but lets get at much as we can anyways. Lets start with how Geometry in Submachine breaks apart. first by breaking down the laws of Euclid.
1. Only one straight line segment can be drawn joining any two points.
2. Any straight line segment can be extended indefinitely in a straight line.
3. Given any straight line segment, a circle can be drawn having the segment as radius and one endpoint as center.
4. All right angles are congruent.
5. If a line segment intersects two straight lines forming two interior angles on the same side that sum to less than two right angles, then the two lines, if extended indefinitely, meet on that side on which the angles sum to less than two right angles.
Essentially everything you learned in trigonometry is true. Now lets look at how this doesn't apply in the subnet.
The looping traps - The looping traps surprisingly fits quite nicely in the current model of geometry, up is up and down is down, you even have a handy little coordinate device proving that no matter how far up you do you don't start moving left or right, this is such an "obedient" area of the subnet that it would provide a basis for what Euclidean geometry is. And i will be referencing this area later on to drive home some points.
917: The Looping Sphere - Now this is an interesting location because it follows so many of the rules. If you didn't mess with any of it you would think it was just a natural grid like the loop, but it's when we start interacting with stuff does it start to fall apart and we know that there is more than meets the eye. So instead of a infinite by infinite grid, we enter a strange grid where the destination is unknowable beforehand and this is where it breaks, for instance you can leave something in a room, move left then down and there it is again, you are back where you started. This breaks everything because, lets imagine you have a lazer pointer that can shine through metal, the lazer will now quite literally be everywhere in this closed system at once rendering it impossible for large scale measurements.
Okay that might be a little complicated to start out with but it just goes to show how strange and fascinating the Subnet is and how it will be a royal pain in the rump to unravel. So lets take a step back and analyze something simple, something that people can get their heads around without study.
076: The Road Room - This room seems innocent enough, The name has nothing to do with the Euclidian Misconduct happening. Though in all honesty this could literally be explained away with smoke and mirrors, but i try not to think that whoever built this room would do that. Anyway's there is a projector in the lowest room and when turning it on a beam of light shoots out, the interesting thing is that a parallel beam appears two rooms above. Like I said this can be explained away, but usually unobstructed and unaffected by forces of gravity like a black hole photons tend to go in a straight line. If we are to believe that the two beams of light in this area are one in the same and unaffected by reflection and refraction, which I think we are that would lead to breaking the fifth law. simply speaking two parallel lines cannot intersect eachother, this might be a little different however the parallel lines in question are the same line, i think the fact speaks for itself
411: The Escher room Room - What whats the 411 on room 411? I'm sorry that was a dare I swear to god. This is our biggest taste of how space warps around because we can literally see the back of the Teleporter that sent you here, again some messing around with light which should move on a straight line. again this is breaking apart the fifth law stating parallel lines cannot meet up with each other, if you consider every photon like the lazer we found in the road room.
555: The Loop - Although this looks like the looping traps it is vastly different, mostly because of how moving two to the side ends you back at your origin, moving two vertically does the same, and theoretically moving diagonally only once will keep you in the same room. This, like a few before breaks the second law, if a line segment goes on as long as it can in any direction here it will inevitably return to its origin, thus not being infinite in size. this can be achieved with just making a loop of paper, so maybe this room is just tightly wound in the fourth dimension, but we've seen how difficult it can be to traverse the layers like that and naturally walking around seems a lot simpler.
888: The Cube Loop - There's not much I can say on this room its unmappable and untraceable, I'ts impossible to get lost here because after a certain amount of movement in this area always brings you back, this doesn't seem like non euclidean geometry as much as it seems like an involuntary passage through dimensions, perhaps pointing to a new radical idea that progress in the submachine is an illusion. but that's for another time, I mostly mentioned this because some one else might have an idea on how this might be a thing.
This is less of a theory and more or a study of the math and physics involved in The Subnet as we know it. I will be using some room examples from SNEE but any written clues Im taking from the main game
We know that there has to be some kind of mess up with space and time, the clues are like shards of glass, you don't need to collect them all and glue them together to understand a glass was broken, but lets get at much as we can anyways. Lets start with how Geometry in Submachine breaks apart. first by breaking down the laws of Euclid.
1. Only one straight line segment can be drawn joining any two points.
2. Any straight line segment can be extended indefinitely in a straight line.
3. Given any straight line segment, a circle can be drawn having the segment as radius and one endpoint as center.
4. All right angles are congruent.
5. If a line segment intersects two straight lines forming two interior angles on the same side that sum to less than two right angles, then the two lines, if extended indefinitely, meet on that side on which the angles sum to less than two right angles.
Essentially everything you learned in trigonometry is true. Now lets look at how this doesn't apply in the subnet.
The looping traps - The looping traps surprisingly fits quite nicely in the current model of geometry, up is up and down is down, you even have a handy little coordinate device proving that no matter how far up you do you don't start moving left or right, this is such an "obedient" area of the subnet that it would provide a basis for what Euclidean geometry is. And i will be referencing this area later on to drive home some points.
917: The Looping Sphere - Now this is an interesting location because it follows so many of the rules. If you didn't mess with any of it you would think it was just a natural grid like the loop, but it's when we start interacting with stuff does it start to fall apart and we know that there is more than meets the eye. So instead of a infinite by infinite grid, we enter a strange grid where the destination is unknowable beforehand and this is where it breaks, for instance you can leave something in a room, move left then down and there it is again, you are back where you started. This breaks everything because, lets imagine you have a lazer pointer that can shine through metal, the lazer will now quite literally be everywhere in this closed system at once rendering it impossible for large scale measurements.
Okay that might be a little complicated to start out with but it just goes to show how strange and fascinating the Subnet is and how it will be a royal pain in the rump to unravel. So lets take a step back and analyze something simple, something that people can get their heads around without study.
076: The Road Room - This room seems innocent enough, The name has nothing to do with the Euclidian Misconduct happening. Though in all honesty this could literally be explained away with smoke and mirrors, but i try not to think that whoever built this room would do that. Anyway's there is a projector in the lowest room and when turning it on a beam of light shoots out, the interesting thing is that a parallel beam appears two rooms above. Like I said this can be explained away, but usually unobstructed and unaffected by forces of gravity like a black hole photons tend to go in a straight line. If we are to believe that the two beams of light in this area are one in the same and unaffected by reflection and refraction, which I think we are that would lead to breaking the fifth law. simply speaking two parallel lines cannot intersect eachother, this might be a little different however the parallel lines in question are the same line, i think the fact speaks for itself
411: The Escher room Room - What whats the 411 on room 411? I'm sorry that was a dare I swear to god. This is our biggest taste of how space warps around because we can literally see the back of the Teleporter that sent you here, again some messing around with light which should move on a straight line. again this is breaking apart the fifth law stating parallel lines cannot meet up with each other, if you consider every photon like the lazer we found in the road room.
555: The Loop - Although this looks like the looping traps it is vastly different, mostly because of how moving two to the side ends you back at your origin, moving two vertically does the same, and theoretically moving diagonally only once will keep you in the same room. This, like a few before breaks the second law, if a line segment goes on as long as it can in any direction here it will inevitably return to its origin, thus not being infinite in size. this can be achieved with just making a loop of paper, so maybe this room is just tightly wound in the fourth dimension, but we've seen how difficult it can be to traverse the layers like that and naturally walking around seems a lot simpler.
888: The Cube Loop - There's not much I can say on this room its unmappable and untraceable, I'ts impossible to get lost here because after a certain amount of movement in this area always brings you back, this doesn't seem like non euclidean geometry as much as it seems like an involuntary passage through dimensions, perhaps pointing to a new radical idea that progress in the submachine is an illusion. but that's for another time, I mostly mentioned this because some one else might have an idea on how this might be a thing.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
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collinbollin
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Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Oh! I forgot the most important thing, the conclusion, which I find a comfortable place for a tl;dr.
So obviously the submachine doesn't play by our rules, whether it be the fundamentals of geometry in this world or otherwise, but lets break down all of my points one by one.
1. The looping traps are prime examples of normal geometry, it follows all of the rules to a T. yet other places do not, so either the plane of space is distorted more in other places than some or they exist in different realities. (see: Destruction of space theory.)
2. It is impossible for traditional measurements and mapping to work in certain places of the submachine due to laws being broken
3. Parallel lines can meet up in the submachine universe, scrapping the fifth euclid law.
4. you can see the back of a machine that is also behind you, meaning two different straight line segments are created by joining two points.
5. An indefinite straight line can connect back with itself.
6. The only laws not explicitly disproven in this study are the third and fifth, meaning that until further study those may still hold true.
So with those three laws brushed away that leaves us with a possible Spherical Model or a "Saddle back" model of geometry, What do you want to take from this is up to you, I just wanted to point out the facts.
So obviously the submachine doesn't play by our rules, whether it be the fundamentals of geometry in this world or otherwise, but lets break down all of my points one by one.
1. The looping traps are prime examples of normal geometry, it follows all of the rules to a T. yet other places do not, so either the plane of space is distorted more in other places than some or they exist in different realities. (see: Destruction of space theory.)
2. It is impossible for traditional measurements and mapping to work in certain places of the submachine due to laws being broken
3. Parallel lines can meet up in the submachine universe, scrapping the fifth euclid law.
4. you can see the back of a machine that is also behind you, meaning two different straight line segments are created by joining two points.
5. An indefinite straight line can connect back with itself.
6. The only laws not explicitly disproven in this study are the third and fifth, meaning that until further study those may still hold true.
So with those three laws brushed away that leaves us with a possible Spherical Model or a "Saddle back" model of geometry, What do you want to take from this is up to you, I just wanted to point out the facts.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Responses:
Or, and this is a slim connection, is the matter manipulated for the energy it needs in a karma portal, and the waste is deposited elsewhere? Which might explain the large loads of resin in the Temple (both of them, actually) that is only found on Murtaugh's side.
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Also, did you find the graphical error in this location?
Otherwise, a very well thought-out study.
Is it possible that the matter was used for additional energy to create the karma portals?Destruction of Earth Theory wrote:This presents a problem, where is everything? The karma portals didn't rip apart the palace, it literally destroyed the matter breaking the first law of thermodynamics, a reverse big bang if you will. which would obviously have a devastating effect on the fabric of space if it can remove matter. If you assume that removing matter and thus energy from a system would affect the fabric of space, for example; ripping an area in space, no space would exist and thus light would have no medium to travel through.
Or, and this is a slim connection, is the matter manipulated for the energy it needs in a karma portal, and the waste is deposited elsewhere? Which might explain the large loads of resin in the Temple (both of them, actually) that is only found on Murtaugh's side.
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We've seen proof of other objects extending beyond the walls of a location (namely the pipe btw/ 551 and 562), so I assume that reflection is again taking place. Occam's Razor used here!076 Study wrote: If we are to believe that the two beams of light in this area are one in the same and unaffected by reflection and refraction, which I think we are that would lead to breaking the fifth law.
Also, did you find the graphical error in this location?
I actually have to disagree with you here; notice the ground that each teleporter is resting on and its immediate surroundings. They are not the same. One is on a pedestal and the other is on a more spacious surface.411 Study wrote:This is our biggest taste of how space warps around because we can literally see the back of the Teleporter that sent you here
Otherwise, a very well thought-out study.
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collinbollin
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Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Thanks for the response Error!
Also that's an interesting observation, I've been thinking about the resin for a long time, and I've been wanting to do a theory on it but at the end of the day I just don't know, but I will think about that, moving the space rather than removing it
I did not notice a graphical error what is it? also yes, it's hard to figure stuff out by just looking at it, light can be reflected refracted bent and absorbed, so without the whole picture we might never find the true answer. but in my defense!
Now this I should have seen before, does anyone know if you can reach that portal or if its some un-accecable place.
Also that's an interesting observation, I've been thinking about the resin for a long time, and I've been wanting to do a theory on it but at the end of the day I just don't know, but I will think about that, moving the space rather than removing it
I did not notice a graphical error what is it? also yes, it's hard to figure stuff out by just looking at it, light can be reflected refracted bent and absorbed, so without the whole picture we might never find the true answer. but in my defense!
Now this is probably refering to the light around the door at the end of the 8th game, it could be turned around to support my claim... maybe.- I never knew a beam of light could bend like that.
Now this I should have seen before, does anyone know if you can reach that portal or if its some un-accecable place.
*takes a shot of karmic water* who's ready for some submachine
Re: Collinbollin's Theories
Those geometries only break the fifth postulate (the parallel postulate). Breaking the other laws require something much more exotic.So with those three laws brushed away that leaves us with a possible Spherical Model or a "Saddle back" model of geometry, What do you want to take from this is up to you, I just wanted to point out the facts.
I know that projective geometry breaks the 3rd and 4th postulates, and to break the 2nd one space must be bounded or have singularities.
Re: Collinbollin's Theories
I gave you a theory page here. Now you can place final edits on the Wiki for the voting session when you have the chance!