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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 08 Mar 2017 14:10
by MateuszSkutnik
Sublevel 105 wrote:Btw, what does "I DIDN'T WAKE UP IN A ROOM" mean?
You can't possibly be serious...

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 08 Mar 2017 15:06
by Sublevel 113
I can. 8-)

Because if I understood meaning correctly, then where I am living, it is said: "I woke up not in a room". Not "I did not wake up in a room". Or I simply misunderstood it.
Of course, when I first read it, I was confused because I don't know what could it mean.

(the same translation problems I have with "looping traps", "When Murtaugh saw the cat changing the layer" (did cat changed the layer or Mur did?), etc)

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 09 Nov 2018 10:43
by Mr. Trapezoid
Dungeon graph: Submachine 9

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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 09 Nov 2018 11:48
by Mr. Trapezoid
How the graph works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZL4GLH03gyA

Personal notes:

The opening of Submachine 9 sees the player solve 2 puzzles to obtain the main mechanic item, the karmic water, and solve 2 more puzzles to learn how to use it. The karmic water lets the player access new keys, locks and areas in the game. Karmic water is used throughout most of the game, but I decided to only shown the first two instances of karmic water puzzles on this dungeon graph (part of me regrets it though. I might return to it and update it with all the karmic water puzzles). The player also gets to keep the navigator from the Plan.

Completing the tutorial opens the path to the temple, and sees the player toggle a ladder switch normally, then toggle a second ladder switch using the karmic water. Similarly, the next puzzle sees you do the same task twice, only the second puzzle sees the player use the navigator for the first time instead of escalating the challenge of the karmic puzzles. A surprise twist you could say, I like it a lot.

Note: Since the navigator is a key the player already has when starting the game, you won't see navigator puzzles being indicated on the graph.

Opening the door gives the player a bowl. This bowl is important to return to the box in the previous room so you can later backtrack to the chest. It is easy to miss this, move forward and later get stuck because you can't find the last brass tile. Next the player sees themselves obtain a bunch of keys, many of these which will not be used until the third quarter of the game. Opening the hatch sees the player use karmic water and the navigator in conjunction and obtaining the four brass tiles (the first instance of a multi-key lock puzzle) sees the player search the temple, use the chest key and the stone tablet. Lastly the navigator is used one last time to insert the tiles. This gives the player two new keys, one of them opens the passage forward.

This opens up the third fourth of the game, which sees the player use all of the keys they obtained in the second quarter. It is important to note here how the game design cleverly supports the storytelling of this entry. While you can technically check Liz and Murtaugh's graves in any order you wish, a first time player will likely see Murtaugh's grave first. This is because the the brass key for Liz' grave is placed right next to Murtaugh's grave entrance. Both graves must be checked and had their respective stone eye given to retrieve the seals to the passage forward. Three locks must be solved in sequence to reach the climax of the game.

The climax of the Temple sees another reference to a previous title, in this case: the Root, as the player sees themselves reusing the wisdom gems for a final puzzle using the navigator. This gives the player the turquoise button which can be used on the navigator to finally give access to the layer of light.

Interacting with the light seal completes the game.

Submachine 9 sees the multi-key puzzles take a back seat to ordinary key-lock puzzles. The player also gets a small taste of how the main mechanics and keys will merge and be reused for the tenth and final game in the series. While submachine 8 was divided into 8 acts, submachine 9 settles for a 5 act structure: Act 1: The tutorial, act 2: karmic puzzles ending with the twist reveal of the navigator, act 3: Mastering the navigator and karmic water, act 4: Using all the keys from act 3 and act 5: climax involving the navigator. My only issue with the graph personally is that the karmic water and navigator puzzles reach their climax too early, and wish it had been reserved for the final gauntlet (the three locks before the climax). Dividing the game into 5 acts instead of 8 slows down the tempo of this entry somewhat, but I would still consider this entry the second most fast paced entry in the series in terms of feel of tempo. If I had to summarize the feeling submachine 9 is going for with one sentence, it would be the feeling of uncovering a secret.

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 09 Nov 2018 11:57
by Mr. Trapezoid
The final graph is in progress, but I am going to need one more day to finish this one. The dungeon graph + breakdown of submachine 10 will therefore be delayed by one day, I hope you understand.

Tune in on Sunday for the last dungeon graph breakdown: Submachine 10: the Exit

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 05 Sep 2019 22:29
by Sublevel 113
I discovered for myself interesting fact about ThumpMonks' Noir Selections album

It was released at the same time with Submachine 9. It contains 8 tracks, six of them are tagged "submachine" (mp3 files I bought. other two are tagged as "ambient/glitch"). 5 of them are extended versions of ambients from Sub9, sixth - "Ex Machina", contains tunes from location from Submachine 10 as it appears.

There's question... if this track was released in 2014 and was tagged as "submachine", but wasn't ended in actual ninth game of the series - could it mean that it was supposed to be used in one of location from Sub9? Maybe even in some cut location? :o

How convenient that karma portal from Meditation Place (coordinates 111) location from Sub10, where tunes from Ex Machine play, leads directly to the Temple, location from Sub9... How convenient...

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 06 Sep 2019 03:40
by Jatsko
Yeah, interesting how the mostly-Sub9 album also has a track remixed in a Sub10 location that leads to the Sub9 location.

I imagine this happened: Mat asked for Thumpmonks to make an album for Sub9 with a few extra tracks in it just in case Mat felt like one or two didn't fit. I don't think Mat planned for each track in the album to correspond to a location, he probably just ended up picking 5 of the 6 [EDIT: not 5 of the 8] for the game after having the locations done (keep in mind it was known at this point that music and stuff typically came later after the gamebuilding and gameplay was finished). So the "Ex Machina" remix was probably used in Sub10 because it didn't fit well enough for Sub9, but it was good enough for the III location that was tied to Sub9.

And yeah, keep in mind that a lot of the Sub10 locations correspond to the previous game locations they warp to. I'll write it out in the Sub10 thread in a bit.

Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 06 Sep 2019 13:36
by Sublevel 113
yes, maybe that happened.

Though I think originally only 6 out of 8 of them was written for potential use in submachine games, as mp3 tags say.

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Re: Submachine 9: the Temple

Posted: 07 Aug 2023 23:22
by Sublevel 113
For a long time I wondered why first Sub9 location is called "Garden" in official ost, and what are these strange stacks of stones(?) in the background.
Today I was digging through internet. And now I think "garden" can be reference to old cemetery gardens, burial lands. And these stack of stones - in some cultures, they were landmarks of holy grounds, or burial grounds, memorials.
It fits too well... considering giant temple complex, and tomb of Mur and Liz.
Many people could be buried here for millennia... People from all realities. In the Knot.