Sundex's Theories

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Jatsko
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by Jatsko »

Sundex wrote:@prupp The light in submachine 10 is the light spheres. The only reason they can exist in all the layers is because the 8th layer, although it is a layer itself, is the layer that "floats around" with the others.
They're all different light spheres though. So that doesn't offer proof that they span multiple layers.
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Sundex
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by Sundex »

Apocrypha wrote:They're all different light spheres though. So that doesn't offer proof that they span multiple layers.
Apart from that, the rest is fine?
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Jatsko
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by Jatsko »

Well,
Sundex wrote:OOI: Iron pyramid. In this location, there is a machine which can be used to transport items from one of seven layers to your layer. Each button correlates to a layer. The 8th one isn't included in this machine, meaning that this is part of the 8th layer. This can not only be used to figure out the layer of OOI, but also to figure out the location of the other areas.
It seems like most of your theory is hinging on this buttoned machine displaying items from different layers. I don't know how solid this premise is.

1. Take for instance the screen changer in the Cardinal Mosque. Sort of a similar train of thought in that each screen shows a different layer, except layer 2 where the cardinal mosque is is also part of that screen system. So if you have a multilayer display device it doesn't have to be in a layer separate from all the others it represents.

2. Your conclusion also operates under the assumption that specific materials only show up in specific layers, which is shaky at best. Also it tends to beg the belief that layers are completely made out of only a few specific types of material, which is also pretty rocky.
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Sundex
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by Sundex »

@Apocrypha

1: Your idea with the screen changer in the cardinal mosque I can agree with. The thing that also makes this piece of equipment evidence is the fact that it only has 7 buttons. In the eighth game, this is abundantly clear that each button represents one layer. The eighth is not included because of it's complexity. If S.H.I.V.A can't access it, what would you think a simple machine could do? Same with the machine in Sub 10.

2: I am sticking to my conclusion. Although it is rocky, it makes sense for some places. I see where you are going with this statement: The pyramids, temple, garden, Shiva section, and anywhere else in the knot are probably the examples you are using, but the examples I am using for this theory are sector_19, in which each layer is different in design, along with, of course, Sub 10, in which each layer is also different in design.

If you have your theory on this topic, I would be glad to hear it, but for now, I am sticking with mine

In fact, I am going to add what I told you into the theory now.
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Sundex
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Karmic energy theory

Post by Sundex »

Karma. In life, we use it to say that when you do something, something of equal positivity or negativity will happen to you. But this isn't the real world we are talking about. This is the subnet. In here, karma is a form of energy. We don't realize it when we play through the main storyline in order, but we interact with karmic energy from beginning to end.

In Submachine 1, we have the option to pick up a wisdom gem, which is an object that holds karmic energy. We don't know if the amount of karmic energy it can hold and emit is infinite or finite, but we do know we use these wisdom gems in many ways. In sub 2, we use it to operate a ladder to explore outside of the lighthouse dungeon. In sub 5, we use them to power up a mover which we use in the beginning of sub 6. In sub 7, we use it to operate a portal that takes us from the gardens to the winter palace. In sub 9, we use the wisdom gems from sub 5 to reveal a turquoise button that is part of the navigator. Wisdom gems aren't the only source of karma in the subnet. There are also karma portals in subs 7, 9, and 10. These come in a small and basic variety of colors: Red, green, cyan, and white (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFIhv1k9bPs for the red karma portal). In fact, those colors represent the color of all karma in the subnet. We assume that the red karma portals have the exact same mechanics as the cyan karma portals (I will be posting a theory on this later. I just need more time to think). The green karma portals, although they still have a sense of instability, are portals that can transport you not just from place to place, but from layer to layer. More specifically, all of the stable layers (which are layers 1-7). This is why all of the karma portals in the knot are green. Cyan karma portals are also unstable, but unlike the green karma portals, can only transport you if you are in a specific layer. This is why all of the karma portals in sub 7, excluding the big one at Liz's ship, are Cyan. Not only that, but the gateway between the gardens and the winter palace is also Cyan. The white karma portals are probably only usable in the 8th layer, seeing that the only one we ever use is in the 8th layer. It is known that white karma portals are stronger than green karma portals, but apart from that, everything else is just theory. Another source of karma is the karma stabilizer. Throughout the main storyline, karma seems like a force of destruction. Especially with karma portals. The karma stabilizer uses karma to fix the effects of karma portals.

There are a bunch more example of karma in the subnet but either way, I bring all these examples up because of a question me and the other members of the forum tried to answer: How do you interpret karmic energy? The simple answer is this: there is no specific quantitative way to analyze it. The closest we can get is an infinite or finite amount of energy, which isn't that specific. Instead, it is measured in a qualitative way. Karma isn't necessarily a good thing or a bad thing in the subnet. It is simply there because it is. Karma, in reality, is described as the balance of the universe, and it is said that it is present in many realms. Those realms being physical, mental, emotional, astral, and beyond. Notice that there are five realms listed. Each realm plays a role in the subnet, but note that a real isn't a layer. It is physically existent because of the fact that if it wasn't, we as the player (see http://pastelland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=795) wouldn't be able to explore it. The submachine also takes a mental toll on those who explore it because of amnesia. Evidence for this is a note in Submachine 4 that states that the explorers forgot things, such as the coordinates to the basement section and Murtaugh's name. In another note in submachine 10, it sort of states that people enter the subnet to change for the better or worse. "I think you are ready to enter the Submachine. . .Remember, this can destroy or transform you. But you will not return the same man. . ." This transformation/destruction is more than likely emotional. The subnet in it's entirety has an astral feel to it. It can be sort of compared to the universe. Especially in the sense that we have many locations in submachine universe and we haven't even scratched the surface of the subnet because it is always evolving, expanding, and healing itself with karmic veins. The only problThe subnet goes beyond the capabilities of the normal observable universe. Some examples of this are how gravity in location 411 can vary depending on where you are at and how the universe is in a four dimensional reality and the subnet is a 5 dimensional reality.

To summarize, karma isn't just in the items in your inventory or the portals you travel through. Karma is a force that exists throughout the subnet, and although it can be quantitatively described as infinite, just as the subnet can be described the exact same way, it is easier to be described qualitatively. Now although karmic energy exists, it can be tampered with. Murtaugh is a prime example of this. Through his experiments with karma, he destroyed an entire layer of reality to the point where it wasn't fixable. Not only that, but in his experiments just before his death, he tampered with karmic energy and made it so it fixes the effects of karma that he made before. Even with these experiments, the effects of his experiments still linger. And, as stated before, the karma is just there because it is.
Last edited by Sundex on 03 Oct 2017 16:37, edited 10 times in total.
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Sublevel 113
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by Sublevel 113 »

@Sun: advice: please, break your theories on paragraphs. thx
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reed
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Re: On the topic of layers

Post by reed »

http://submachine.wikia.com/wiki/Forum_ ... er.2C_2013
Very likely the same goes for karmic energy.
The five dimensions are: three spatial dimensions, time, and layers. The note was talking about layers.

The main problem with this theory is that you state "there is no quantitative way to analyze [karmic energy]" without backing it up and go from there into some sort of quasi philosophy, which is not really a theory material.
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Vortex
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Re: Sundex's Theories

Post by Vortex »

hey Sundex, I edited your thread title because you have more than one theory on it now :)
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Sundex
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Re: Sundex's Theories

Post by Sundex »

Vortex wrote:hey Sundex, I edited your thread title because you have more than one theory on it now :)
Thx
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Sundex
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Infernal basement v. Sub 10 basement.

Post by Sundex »

Okay, I took a screenshot on the infernal basement and the sub 10 basement, and already noticed a similarity: they both have the 4 tile puzzle as some sort of an origin. Now, if you decided to layer these atop of each other, you would notice some more similarities: the red karma portal and the cyan karma portal are in the exact same coordinate room in both of these portions (2,-1). Not only that, but the position of the valve in norm basement and the rotating stone puzzle in infernal basement is the same as well (-1,0). Now this is a wild thought that completely contradicts a theory I made but are the normal basement and infernal basement on different layers?

EDIT: never mind. Just realized that if the infernal basement was on a different layer, there would probably be a red karma portal at the normal basement
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